So, tell me how to run faster

[Ironmom]

I'm interested in any and all advice on how to improve my run times this year. It's my biggest limiter. I've used a coach before, who did video and everything and seemed to think my technique was fine. I've done long runs, tempo runs, fartleks, track workouts. I don't seem to get much faster.

In a typical race, I kick butt in the swim, hold my own on the bike, and someone (or several someones, or a bunch of someones) passes me on the run. I have had, literally, a 5 minute lead on the women's field going into the run in an Olympic race, and still been passed. It's downright embarassing! :-). And I've been running for, oh, 20 years now, so you'd think I'd get better at some point, but I haven't. I would be happy, seriously, with a sub-:50 10k in an Oly-distance tri.

I don't have much extra $$$ for stuff like individual coaching, but would be interested if anyone thinks there is a book or program out there that could help. I'm hoping to qualify for age group nationals this year (even with my sucky running), and I want 2007 to be the year I become a better runner.

[glbrum]

What's your volume look like?

How often do you run?

Do you run off the bike in training?

Try and be a little bit more specific with any more info that you may be able to give us

[glbrum]

more stuff I just thought of:

how do you feel coming off the bike? tired or upbeat/fresh?

I'm thinking it could be bike fitness (maybe lack there of) as much as it could be a running problem.

[Triguy98]

How is your stand alone 10k time?

[kona_expat]

Another question: what does your typical training week look like? Things need to be structured to enable you to run at your best in training in order to build the necessary endurance/toughness/speed to pull it off in a race.

So full set of questions:
1. Structure of your typical training week
2. Race distances (know you did an IM in 06--what about 07?)
3. Open 10K and/or 1/2 mary times
4. Average run volume (hours or miles or both) for past 3 years
5. Height, weight, % body fat
6. Since your frame of reference is Oly distance, splits for your PR in that distance

[beads1985]

Good post.
I want to improve my run times as well.
I'd like to hear some other points of view on this too.

[Ironmom]

> What's your volume look like?

Depends on the races I'm training for. This year will be sprint & Oly in spring/summer, and half-Iron in the fall. So I'll probably be running 15 - 20 miles a week until mid-summer, when I'll ramp up to 25 - 30.

> How often do you run?

3 - 4x a week is the most I can fit in with my schedule.

> Do you run off the bike in training?

Yes.

>how do you feel coming off the bike? tired or upbeat/fresh?

Just fine. I have pretty good running fitness, I'm just not fast.

> I'm thinking it could be bike fitness (maybe lack there of) as much as it could be a running problem.

I kind of don't think so. I'm just not fast. I'm just about as fast running fresh as I am running off the bike in a tri. Well, at least I'm consistent!

>How is your stand alone 10k time?

:53, with a :55 10k in an Oly tri, and a 1:58 half-marathon (stand-alone) and a :26 5k (standalone), 26:45 (in a sprint tri). I run about a 9 minute mile, maybe a little less, no matter how far, or how tired I am.

>Another question: what does your typical training week look
>like? Things need to be structured to enable you to run at your
>best in training in order to build the necessary
>endurance/toughness/speed to pull it off in a race.

This is probably a big part of the problem. I think I need to find a good structured program. It's a bit hard for me to have consistent running times, due to family schedule issues. So that's a limitation I have, but within that, I'd like to try to get more of a plan for my running workouts. Usually, I just go out with whatever time I have and do a run.

>So full set of questions:
> Structure of your typical training week

I don't have a lot of structure. I've just been fitting it in when I can. But I do know that I can run on Tuesdays, Fridays, and Sundays for sure, and probably one other day a week.

> Race distances (know you did an IM in 06--what about 07?)

I'll race at least one sprint, Oly, and half-IM this year. Sprint and Oly in spring/summer, half-IM in fall.

> Height, weight, % body fat

5/7", 160, 20%. The lightest I've ever been was 150 and 16% body fat, but that was pre-kids. I am a pretty big-boned, big kind of gal, not really a lithe runner body type. I'm sure that's some of why I'm not particularly fast.

Since your frame of reference is Oly distance, splits for your PR in that distance

Well, my PR was about 20 years ago at that distance, LOL :-) But recently (last 5 years, which is post-kids), the fastest I ran in a Oly distance tri was:

8:45, 8:46, 9:01, 8:51, 8:53, 8:51, 1:47: 54:52

[kona_expat]

How much (hours) swimming do you do in a "typical" week? How much biking? That's what I meant about training week structure in addition to some sort of pattern.

But here are some ideas.

I know you're a great swimmer, so if you really want to improve your running, maybe it's time to spend more time out of the pool (gasp!). For someone as gifted a swimmer as you, you could easily not swim at all until March or April without noticeable loss of fitness. And during that time, think about how much more you could run (being careful, of course, to follow a periodized plan).

The key in getting faster at running (or biking or swimming) is to spend purposeful time running faster. Faster than what? Most people can incorporate 20-60 minutes of tempo pace (and by that I mean 10-20" SLOWER than open 10K pace) into their weekly run volume without becoming injured, whereas once you venture into traditional track repeats (200's, 400's, 800's), the likelihood of injury increases.

In any case, you have to run faster to get faster, and you need to measure your improvements so you know when to up the ante. In other words, you set your baseline pace, which is based on your open 10K pace NOW, and then you do your training against that metric. You need to know when to go faster. How? Best way I know of is by using the information in Daniels' Running Formula book. There's also a link to the online VDOT calculator on my blog's sidebar, where it explains some of what's in that book. Many people make the mistake of trying to run faster too soon, which then leads to injury or staleness. In run training, you need to give your body maybe 6-8 weeks to stay at a given pace level before you move up, hopefully because you ran a race that PROVED you are faster!

If you run the same speed all the time, you get good at, well, running that speed. If you are able to run 4-5 times a week, then that opens the door for a bit more structure in your run training, where 1 run is long (possibly with tempo work at the end), 1 run is medium distance tempo, 1 run is skills focused (strides) and 1-2 additional runs are just easy to steady (zone 1 to zone 2) runs (1 or both of them may be runs off the bike). Then, on a week in, week out basis, you COMMIT to the tempo run and the long run, and do your best to get in the others, since they exist primarily to give you a break from hard running and also to keep your weekly volume up.

I have found that learning to run different speeds on different days is key, too. Many people run too fast on their easy days, and then on their hard days they are not able to go as fast as they should.

In the end, it will be about consistency, volume and spending appropriate amounts of time at "faster" paces. And not getting injured.

You know the bit about body composition. Losing some weight would also give you some free speed. Sometimes finding your optimal running weight is what enables you to tolerate running faster more often, or at least to find it more enjoyable. That worked for me. I'm good where I am and don't want to gain even a pound. But it's not like you're fat, so there's no pressure for you to lose weight. But it's there if you want to explore that venue.

One last thing--maybe you need to try some different running shoes? I used to run in these big clunkers and when I switched to lighter weight shoes, it helped a lot. Something to consider.

[Ironmom]

>How much (hours) swimming do you do in a "typical" week? >How much biking? That's what I meant about training week >structure in addition to some sort of pattern.

I only swim a couple of times a week. Usually about 4,000 yards (an hour) twice a week. Bike 3x a week and run 3x a week. As I get closer to races, I add a brick workout after my long bike on the weekend, and usually a shorter brick during the week if I can manage it. One of my big limiters is I have no set schedule (and it's difficult to put one in place). Because I'm a homeschooling mom, I have to work in my exercise around the kids. Because my husband is frequently gone for multi-day trips, it means I have to get really creative to fit it in, and I never know exactly when it will be. I know I would benefit from more structured workouts, and I think I'll need to figure out how I can do that. As it is, I often get an opportunity like I did yesterday, where my husband called from work and said "If you can meet me at home, I have a two hour window and you can go for a bike ride." It's not like I *planned* to bike yesterday, but weather and available time gave me the opportunity.

>I know you're a great swimmer, so if you really want to improve
>your running, maybe it's time to spend more time out of the pool
>(gasp!). For someone as gifted a swimmer as you, you could
>easily not swim at all until March or April without noticeable loss
>of fitness. And during that time, think about how much more you
>could run (being careful, of course, to follow a periodized plan).

I don't think I could drop swimming entirely, it's just something I love too much (also I've found that it keeps me injury-free when I'm running, like nothing else does). And like I said, I don't swim a whole lot, at the most usually twice a week. But I do think I could find a way to work in another run workout a week, bringing it to 4 -5 instead of 3 - 4.

>The key in getting faster at running (or biking or swimming) is to
>spend purposeful time running faster. Faster than what? Most
>people can incorporate 20-60 minutes of tempo pace (and by
>that I mean 10-20" SLOWER than open 10K pace) into their
>weekly run volume without becoming injured, whereas once you
>venture into traditional track repeats (200's, 400's, 800's), the >likelihood of injury increases.

Thanks, that is just the kind of suggestion I was looking for. I'm sure I haven't spent enough time doing tempo pace workouts, and I need to get on the ball about incorporating them more.

>In any case, you have to run faster to get faster, and you need to
>measure your improvements so you know when to up the ante. In
>other words, you set your baseline pace, which is based on your open
>10K pace NOW, and then you do your training against that metric.
>You need to know when to go faster. How? Best way I know of is by
> using the information in Daniels' Running Formula book.

Interesting, I've never seen that book. Even our library doesn't have it (and they have a ton of running books, being as I live in TrackTown USA). I'll have to see if I can get my hands on a copy, and I'll check out your blog for the info.

> If you are able to run 4-5 times a week, then that opens the door for a
>bit more structure in your run training, where 1 run is long (possibly
>with tempo work at the end), 1 run is medium distance tempo, 1 run
> is skills focused (strides) and 1-2 additional runs are just easy to steady
>(zone 1 to zone 2) runs (1 or both of them may be runs off the bike).
>Then, on a week in, week out basis, you COMMIT to the tempo run and
>the long run, and do your best to get in the others, since they exist primarily
>to give you a break from hard running and also to keep your weekly volume up.

That sounds like something I could fit in around my schedule, for the most part. The long run is hardest for me when my husband's gone (for some reason, kids aren't all that thrilled with many hours of babysitters! go figure...), but I think I can find a way to make my runs more structured instead of just heading out the door, and also adding one more in a week.

>I have found that learning to run different speeds on different
>days is key, too. Many people run too fast on their easy days,
>and then on their hard days they are not able to go as fast as
>they should.

Yes, that's a hard one to do for sure. I know I sometimes go way harder than I should, and am working on finding different paces. For some reason, I find it easy to do swimming, but harder to do in running and biking.

>You know the bit about body composition. Losing some
>weight would also give you some free speed. Sometimes finding your
>optimal running weight is what enables you to tolerate running faster
>more often, or at least to find it more enjoyable. That worked for me.
>I'm good where I am and don't want to gain even a pound. But it's not
>like you're fat, so there's no pressure for you to lose weight. But it's
>there if you want to explore that venue.

Yes, I know if I was a lighter person, I would definitely get a speed advantage in running. My body doesn't seem to do "light" very easily though, and puts on muscle really fast. The lightest I ever got was the first time I trained for the Ironman, I was only doing long-distance stuff, and yet people used to ask if I was a professional bodybuilder. I'm afraid to ever actually do strength training for fear I might end up looking like an East German shot putter or something. :-) I'm thinking the only way my body will get much lighter is some kind of starvation thing (like Lance Armstrong's chemo diet) and so far I haven't been willing to go there for running speed (though I know running would feel very very different if I was a lighter person!). But yes, I know this.

>One last thing--maybe you need to try some different running shoes?
>I used to run in these big clunkers and when I switched to lighter weight
> shoes, it helped a lot. Something to consider.

I think my shoes are reasonably light, but I have run in heavier shoes and noticed it makes a difference in how it feels.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, and giving me some food for thought and avenues to explore with training. I appreciate the wisdom!

[beads1985]

Originally Posted by Ironmom

That sounds like something I could fit in around my schedule, for the most part. The long run is hardest for me when my husband's gone (for some reason, kids aren't all that thrilled with many hours of babysitters! go figure...), but I think I can find a way to make my runs more structured instead of just heading out the door, and also adding one more in a week.

You can also split your long run. Instead of a 20 miler, do a 10 in the morning and 10 in the late afternoon. It maybe be easier schedule wise to have 2 smaller blocks of times to work with.

You get the mileage and a little recovery time in between decreases the possibilty of injury.

[kona_expat]

For HIM, the maximum long run should be 2:00, MAYBE 2:15. Your bread and butter long run is 1:30 for weeks on end, and your total run volume builds to 4:30-5:00 per week (at peak), that sets you up just fine for a HIM effort.

While a highly competitive open 1/2 marathoner *might* do a 20-mile training run, that's just not necessary for HIM training, and even for IM training for most people. What is going to matter most is your consistency, weekly frequency and overall volume. Especially for someone who *might* get out the door to run only 3 times in a week, making one of those runs a 20-miler just to keep up volume is a recipe for injury.

Also, I wouldn't recommend splitting a 1:30 run into 2 :45 runs in the same day. If you're scheduled to do 2:00 but can only do 1:30, that's better than splitting the 2:00 over 2 runs in the same day. Specificity. You can easily do a 2:00 run the next week when you only did 1:30 the week prior. Just be careful to use the 10% rule.

Now about that swimming--yes, you don't swim "that much," but if your priority is to get faster at running, then I would expect to see some weeks where you choose to get in a 4th or 5th run rather than do that 2nd swim. Yes, your training needs to be fun at some level, but getting faster is WORK not FUN (sorry to be so blunt but it's true), so if you truly want to become a faster runner, you need to put the effort in, which may mean sacrificing swimming more often.

Swimming is good cross training, but I have found that what keeps my running injuries at bay is a lot of stretching/yoga. On a day when I'm feeling beat up from running, stretching for :45 is going to do me more good than hitting the pool. And I also notice that my running mechanics are better when I'm biking a lot, although it could just be time not spent sitting on my butt (which is bad for the low back and hips).

So if you want to become a better runner, you need to start thinking like one. OR you can be happy with your life the way it is and accept what you are able to do and feel good about it. There's no easy way to get faster at anything without putting in the planning effort and focused workout time. And then be consitent about it week in, week out, over months and years and you WILL see results.

[jmruns430]

Originally Posted by kona_expat

In any case, you have to run faster to get faster

This is the biggest thing to realized and when you tell a lot of people this, they just walk out the door and do their 3-5 mile run faster and then they suck wind most of the way through it and will try it again and again. Eventually they will burn out or get injured because they aren't training to run faster. Part of it is being able to mentally push yourself through the entire distance a little faster and the other part is teaching your body how to do it in training. I made a significant jump in my 10-k after doing speed work for my 4th marathon which involved a start off of 5-k speed work then 10-k speed work training, and its something worth taking a look at. This is a link to Hal Higdon's site Daniel's running formula is also a good one to look at, you can probably find the book on Amazon.com

Since you say that you are just as fresh in a tri as you are running on your own (which I believe since you seem to be an awesome swimmer), I doubt it's your ability to run fast over time, but rather that your body just hasn't gotten pushed to run that fast. I would tell you to up your running to make sure you're getting 4 days a week in, and maybe start out with a 5-k speed work program, just to get the feel of fast, take a look at the link above. It has 5 days of running, but one of the easy days can be bike or swim along with one of your rest days. Find a 5-k and test yourself, then move up to the 10-k speed work. While you do have to listen to your body more carefully with the track work so you don't get injured, I think it's important in getting up your speed. Remember when you do tempo work, its generally supposed to be sustainable and slightly uncomfortable. When you do track work, it needs to be sustainable so that your last repeat is not much slower than your first, but it's supposed to be hard, the first time you do it, you may feel like you're going to puke at the end. That's okay! Take an easy cool down, make sure you stretch and recover well, it will get easier to maintain speed at the end. This is a thought for your race, the next time you race force yourself to put in speed so that you're slightly more uncomfortable, sometimes especially when you're used to longer races with easier paces, its hard to remember what level of discomfort you should be feeling during a fast race.

This also may be a time to do easier maintenance on the swim and the bike, so that you still get time on them, but they help to serve as recovery and cross-training for your running, you're body may not be too happy building speed while running and trying to do hard bike and/or swim workouts.