Posts Member

I can't see whatever is being referred to. Add a link, maybe?

: Is it flash? No flash on work computer.

Posts Member

I was there. A lot of the bike was like this. Not sure how else to fix it besides limiting participants or spreading out the race start over waves. I don't think it was bad conduct on the part of the racers or a lack of draft marshall enforcement; it was just too crowded out there.

Posts Member

wow! rush hour!

Posts Member

This year was my second IM Florida, and it was probably a bit worse this year due to the higher winds. I heard there were 10 marshalls and I definitely saw a lot of them and full penalty tents. But in many cases, it is impossible not to draft due to the shear amount of people on the course. If you spread out 2400 racers by 7 meters (then add 1 meter for the bike itself), you'd have a line 19km long. If I backed off immediately after getting passed each time I'd barely be pedaling and find myself at the end of a very very long line. Drafting sucks, wave starts would likely help this and I would support it.

Posts Member

Drafting is practically unavoidable with 2,200 competitors starting roughtly the same time. Per USAT rules, each bike can be no longer than 2 meters long. The draft zone is 7 meters. So end-to-end, if everyone spread out and perfectly abided by the draft zone, the chain would be 30.8k/19.1 miles long.* Wth 2,200 cyclists starting mostly at the same time, do you expect people to spread out along 19 miles? Ironman marshals can enforce the 'no drafting' more, or further limit the field to few entrants, or go with wave starts. Which do you think they'll do?

*Show your work!
2,200 cyclists * a 2 meter bike * 7 meter draft zone between each one.

Posts Member

this is the exact reason why i will never do this race

Posts Member

I laughed through this entire video. Just kept getting worse!! This is obviously blatant and was thinking the same thing Tribro. Why are you racing? Just seems against the challenge of IM.

As far as there not being enough room to move on the course. Simply not the case- these people are blatant and making no effort to change their situation. Sometimes yes, groups will form, but it is a choice wether or not to stay your 7 meters. There is always a choice, some people only think it is important when a Marshal is around. I think we call this integrity?

The funniest part of this to me is the fact this camera man had 2 other cameras on him during the race. Did he have a boom belt on during the run? Maybe a fulebelt full of lenses and batteries?

Posts Member

I agree with trisooner on this one. I have not done a IM so maybe I am way off but the few races I have done I am just out there busting my ass to go fast. I have not intention of drafting, nor would I try to. I do not come from a cycling background and have not rode in group rides at all so I would not know the advantage gained. However in every race I do I am trying to go as fast as possible to record the best time. So slowing down so somebody can pass me doesn't make sense to me. If I do not have the energy to pass I will ride my hardest all the way to the right of the road. If I do have energy I am pushing to get pat people not ride in their wake. Again I have not done a IM so maybe people do try draft and they are wrong to do so. But be aware of the people who are in the middle of the pack who aren't allowed to cross the yellow line with literally hundreds of other competitors. The top AGers and the Pros are far more spread out so this would be a huge violation where they are. Just keep in mind joe schmo from Idaho who is just trying to go as hard as they can regardless of the people around them. My 2cents.

Posts Member

TriSooner, arent you signed up for IMFL 2010? (I pity the pace line!) Cant wait for the RR!

Posts Member

1. IM is a different beast from most other racing. If you spike your power too hard, too often on the bike (like, say, trying to pass multiple draft packs), you will suffer on the run. And the rules of every race say you have to get out of someone's draft zone once overtaken. If that means slowing down, too bad.

2. And drafting is a HUGE advantage over not drafting. Unlike, say, PEDs, which might garner someone a 1% advantage, a draft behind a peleton can net upwards of a 30% power savings. See all those guys on the video sitting up, soft-pedaling? They could not be doing that if they weren't drafting. And when the run starts, they're a lot fresher and stronger than the guy who rides clean.

3. Draft packs form when there are too many riders on too small of a course, each of whom fails to observe the rules w/r/t passing once in the draft zone and dropping back when overtaken. Course topography plays a role in this too. To take a local example, the Spirit of Racine tri (now Ironman Racine 70.3), is notorious for having massive draft packs among AGers. It is also pancake flat. A large number of same athletes who race Racine do IMWI a few months later. Drafting there is much rarer. It's simply too hard to wheel-suck on the constant hills outside of Madison. Race organizers could do more to prevent this, e.g., with wave starts or smaller fields, but I think for now if you want a clean WTC race, find the one with the hardest bike course and sign up for that (maybe IM St. George?)

Posts Member

The guy who shot this posted it on SB. FWIW, it was a helmet cam and a seat mounted cam. I get you on the point where he held up a cam 1-handed, but IMO that's not much worse than taking a drink.

Regardless, it is a bit disheartening to see it turned into a group ride like that.

Posts Member

Valid point, it is a shakey move, but taking pics isn't against the rules, is it? Drafting is, so comparing the two is a red herring. If we get into the gray area of deciding what is and what is not 'reckless endangerment,' then every person who does the Flying Rubber Band Leap to mount their bike or every person who goes into a right-angle turn with inside pedal down could be DQd. It's not a good idea to take pics, I'll grant you that. But triathletes drafting off each other while hunkered in their aero bars is not only as dangerous - but against the rules.

Posts Member

I think most are forgetting the golden rule... When in Rome - Do as the Romans do.

When a peloton passes me, I join it - if only temporarily. Sometimes you have no choice or risk literally being stuck behind the guy on the fold up bike (I have seen this.)

Don't hate the playa, hate the game. :-D

Posts Member

Send them the links to this thread and the others out there, about how ridiculous the drafting is at their race - Of course pointing out all who say they will not attempt the race because of the gross violation of rules that seem to be unenforced.

Posts Member

Taking pictures or video during a race is probably not in the rules today, but you have to wonder if they will add something in the future. They don't want to look bad, that's for sure. They'll say it's a safety issue.

I agree, drafting is bad and yes it can cause accidents as well, heck i was almost part of one when i did the race back in 07. My only problem with this guys is his cockyness in going over the top to capture still images with his camera of people drafting. What will those do that the video won't already do?

Does anybody thing anything will happen from this?

Posts Member

this may be the new WTC finish line policy in effect no non participants crossing the finish line. I personally think that stinks (as long as no other participants is impacted)

Posts Member

I did The Nations Tri in Washington DC this year.. there were 6000 people registerd. Not once on the bike course did i see a marshall. IT was EXTREMLY Crowded.. it was like driving a race car!!!