Pool Flip Turns
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derek5 posted 7 weeks ago.
I think that it is a good idea to do drills where you "turn at the T" before you hit the wall, but for the
most part I believe your OWS will benefit from flip turning. You may use your legs a little more, but you keep momentum. Not to mention it taxes your lungs which will definitely help your efficiency. My 2 cents
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RV posted 7 weeks ago.
I had asked this here before as well - now I still only do open turns - cuz I'd be a danger to myself and anyone in the adjacent lanes if I tried a flip turn.
The advice I got from George (he was our resident swim expert here for quite awhile - haven't seen him lurking recently) - anyway he recommended that I still use a strong push off - mainly just enough to accelerate back to my pace. Rather than trying to accelerate using my stroke every turn back up to your pace.
Seemed to make sense to me.
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jwillia852 posted 7 weeks ago.
Robert C wrote:
It occured to me that this might not be a good idea if one's goal is to best simulate open water swimming because it effectively shortens the pool. hanks.
Nothing about pool swimming simulates open water swimming. Sure you don't kick off in OWS, but your momentum typically isn't interrupted every 25 yards either... Why not keep your momentum up, as previously stated, and just do a few extra laps.
That being said... I don't know how.
Jeff
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Amphibious Triton posted 7 weeks ago.
I agree with derek5. There is alot of benefit to keeping the turns in the training. In my intense swimming days, we'd go out of our way to find drills that force you to hold your breath. Now that I'm out of shape a bit, the thing I notice most that is different is the lung capacity. It makes me think that it's the difference between the average and good swimmers. Learning to maintain pace with less oxygen is key.
I don't think it would hurt your open water swim. If you think you're not getting enough strokes in per workout because of the turns, just add more yardage. Doing a turn without a wall (at the "T") would give you an erratic pace. May not be good for your shoulders having to start from a standstill every 10-15 strokes over a long set/practice.
"There were so many fewer questions when stars where still just the holes to heaven"
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derek5 posted 7 weeks ago.
To change it up I will turn at the "t" for DRILLS. I agree this would not be good all the time. The other benefit of getting a good push off is that you keep good body position. Each time you hit the wall and swim away your constantly going into the head high legs low position which is never a good thing to practice. So I guess now I've given 4 cents :-)
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TBRAVO posted 7 weeks ago.
+1 on doing flip turns to maintain body position and stroke consistency.
Mine really suck but it gives the lifeguards at the pool something to laugh at.
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amphibops posted 7 weeks ago.
I agree with keeping the flip turns in your workout for all the reasons previously posted: minimizing shoulder strain by not starting at zero, maintaining position, and specifically the ability to build lung capacity. And I agree w/ another poster who says that there is little common between OWS and pool swimming; there are so many different factors like siting and waves and such that it's really tough to compare...just ask the folks who just finished their first OWS how much it's like pool swimming (ok, that's poor punctuation and a run-on sentence but it's staying in!).
Here's how I look at the flip-turn: push off the wall, take a nice glide to maintain feel for the water and your position in it, and then a few strokes before your first breath. Push the amount of time before you take the first breath, and you'll feel your lungs burning, and then you have to continue swimming in an oxygen debt until you regain oxygen balance right before your next turn. I like it because I think it helps build up the ability to swim while in oxygen debt.
This helps because it makes swimming in a normal oxygen balance alot easier (as when you get to breathe uninterrupted during OWS), you can recover more quickly if you choke on a wave or get kicked, and I'm pretty sure it helps with your body being able to adapt to higher lactic acid (but I don't really know the science about that). All in all, the key is the oxygen debt created by not breathing for a short period while you're still working. Scientific studies might not back that up completely (or at all!), but I find that I swim faster for longer periods of time when I do it. Thus, I do flip turns in the pool and add 15% distance to make-up for the distance lost while gliding. I think the oxygen debt thing during swimming transfers to better biking and running.
There is no way to get truly better at OWS than doing OWS.
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jenez_world posted 7 weeks ago.
a good drill for lungs is to increase strokes for every breathe each lap. try 3, 5, 7, 9 and then back 9,7,5,3. or lungbusters - how far you go under water along the bottom before you come up but use fins.
the journey is the reward
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foggy posted 7 weeks ago.
I was just going to mention doing the above drills by jenez. I'm not a flip turner either. Yes, I've heard all the benefits but still no desire.
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Robert C posted 7 weeks ago.
Thanks all for the great advice. Since I'm an old man (50) my shoulder health is definately a big issue. Quickly getting back up to speed with one's leg's via a push off seems logical rather than using arm strokes to do the job. I think I'll practice my flip turns and add a bit of distance.
I do my swimming in a 25 yard indoor pool. Most pool swimmers do a powerful flip turn and propel themselves a good distance down the pool before normal swimming resumes. It occured to me that this might not be a good idea if one's goal is to best simulate open water swimming because it effectively shortens the pool. I have started to do a tap-and-turn turnaround and don't push off much with my legs so I can get in more actual swimming distance in the pool. Any thoughts on this? Thanks.