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Long ride pacing

burnman's picture
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started by burnman on March 30, 2009

Like many others in the northeast, I've had the good fortune to spend the last 3 weekends outside of my dark, dank basement and on the road. It's about mid-season for my training plan, so I'm curious what kind of pace everyone puts in for their long rides at this time of year (since they can be few and far between). I did 3.5 and 4-hour rides at a respectable race pace and felt fresh enough to follow up with a strong 10k after each. Then, I did a 4:15 ride this past Saturday at 4-5% above race output (with a nice headwind to boot). Afterwards, I lumbered through a disgustingly slow 5k and spent the returning 5k like one of the walking wounded. I was fine for my 2-hour run on Sunday, but now I'm curious about the cost (or value?) of pushing the higher output on long training rides, with the knowledge that I don't NEED to put in a quality run straight off the bike.

Anton's picture
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Anton posted 50 weeks ago.

You don't need to put in a quality run off the bike...all the time. While I routinely run off the bike often it's only for 15 to 20 minutes...just to get the legs used to that. Anything longer is a brick and if I do that every weekend I'll get trashed. If you're really pushing the output, you don't need to get in a run at all. Maybe you had a hard time because you've done the same thing three weekends in a row after a winter in "Trainer Hell."

"A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."

http://antonspath.blogspot.com

xc800runner's picture
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xc800runner posted 50 weeks ago.

How are you measuring output? By speed or power? If you're riding in a lot of wind, your power numbers (or real effort) will be higher to sustain a given speed. Thus your 4-5% increase in speed may have been more like a 15% increase in effort.

Higher output efforts are always good, if you have them planned and know what you want out of it. You won't increase speed or power by training at the levels you are alraedy at; you need to push beyond current thresholds to make new ones.

burnman's picture
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burnman posted 50 weeks ago.

xc800runner wrote:
How are you measuring output? By speed or power? If you're riding in a lot of wind, your power numbers (or real effort) will be higher to sustain a given speed. Thus your 4-5% increase in speed may have been more like a 15% increase in effort.

Higher output efforts are always good, if you have them planned and know what you want out of it. You won't increase speed or power by training at the levels you are alraedy at; you need to push beyond current thresholds to make new ones.

Should have been more clear: output = effort. The only metric I have used consistently is heart rate. I averaged 4-5% higher on HR to sustain the average speed I was shooting for. The only reason I was doing the 10k bricks was that my legs were up to it. Normally, I just do the quick 5k to get my legs back underneath me. Setting new thresholds is always a good thing, but I debate the value of a challenging 3-hour ride vs. a steady 4 or 5-hour ride.

wirebook's picture
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wirebook posted 50 weeks ago.

Higher effort unfortunely does not equal a better ride. Much of your pacing would depend on what type of race you're targetting.

For example, targetting an IM race - you'd be doing almost all of your long rides in some variation of Zone 2. Like xc800 noted, you're targetting different rides for different purposes. That then helps you to move away from worrying about pace - because pace is irrelevent. Just keep it in zone, and everything will work out. To put it in perspective, my average long ride training pace last year was 14-16mph, but my average HR was smack in the middle of Z2. My average IM pace was 20MPH, and my half was 23MPH. Why the differences? Terrain. I trained in the mountains, but raced on the relative flats. Pace does not equal effort. HR and/or watts (a derivite of that) would equal effort.

Lastly, all my long rides had a simple 25 minute run after them. 10 mins Z2, 5 Z3, 5 Z4A, 5 cool down. That's it. Note that my paces for those were pitiful, but that's all right - it was all about getting the legs used to it. That's the longest I ran off any of my long rides. I certainly did shorter bricks, but no long runs attached to my long rides.