A chance to impart your hard earned IM knowledge for a IM hopeful
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382 days
TriSooner posted 16 weeks ago.
jhudalla wrote:
if you can't do this, you won't cut it.
I'll take a stab (3 IM finishes) . . .
- Swim: You must be comfortable swimming for one hour in open-water, surrounded by people jockeying for position, asserting your 'virtual lane' around buouys, and have the mental capacity to fight this for an hour;
- Bike: You need to be able to cycle 100 miles without stopping (~ 6 hours?) and possess a postive mental script that you rely on to get you through the dark places;
- Run: You need to get in at least one 20 mile run at any pace within a month or so of the race.
- Training volume: At a minimum you are looking at 250 hours of s/b/r, with 50% bike, 30% run, 20% swim, heavily back-loaded (up to half of the total volume) in the 12 weeks leading up the race (not counting the 2 week taper).
- Mental: You must have a supporting cast (people you train with, friends and family who support your goals) and minimize your time spent with people or in activities that either interfere with or contradict your training.
582
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348 days
jhudalla posted 16 weeks ago.
What about over-distance? Do you think there is value in taking a saturday and putting in 200+ miles in 1 shot? I was considering doing this a few times next summer. Reasoning would be the suffering which would be endured during a 200mile bike ride would prepare me physically and emotionally for a full day of IM.
Is this poor logic?
Weary is the path that does not challenge.
1275
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382 days
TriSooner posted 16 weeks ago.
jhudalla wrote:
What about over-distance?
No.
"The top-performing athletes were not overachievers. The single-longest distance performed in any sport didn’t go that much beyond their race distance. For the swim it was 5,000 M, for the bike it was no longer than 209.8 KM and for the run it was no longer than 39.8KM."
http://swimming.about.com/od/triathlon/a/im_dist_trainin.htm
Pssst . . . 39.8k isn't even a full marathon :) You don't need to run a 26.2 in training to do a 26.2 in the race.
Also from the same article . . .
"The most significant single factor found in this study was that successful triathletes performed greater total distances of bike training, particularly over the final months leading up to an ironman-distance race . . . "
http://swimming.about.com/od/triathlon/a/im_dist_trainin.htm
That's why I quoted you 50% of your training volume comes from the bike. Bike helps the run; the run doesn't help the bike.
582
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348 days
jhudalla posted 16 weeks ago.
TriSooner wrote:
Bike helps the run; the run doesn't help the bike.
I totally agree. Thats why I was thinking the uber bike mileage would really help me feel fine after 112 miles and ready for the run. However, I stand corrected.
This is good stuff, keep it comin
Often after a marathon I reflect on my training shortcomings and wonder if, had I done a, b, or c, how my marathon might have gone. What is your take away from your IMs?
Weary is the path that does not challenge.
1854
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1575 days
PrinceofClydes posted 16 weeks ago.
Over-distance?
Absolutely not. You just get injured, not better.
If you simply have to punish yourself by doing more, then go for quality not quantity, but only after you have done enough base to survive the training without injury.
You could waste a lot of time being injured. Avoid it.
Suffering during training is overrated, imho.
If you are going to pursue this discussion, you had better sit down right now and come up with a meaningful goal - and I don't mean, "just to do as well as I can."
I don't mean, "To win it all" either.
Assess what you have done and can do right now, and extraploate that to a set of goals for each of the 5 splits (incl. T1 and T2) and nutrition goal.
Then look at what you would have to do in training to achieve each one of those goals.
Decide if you want to pay the price to achieve each of those goals.
Revise the plan accordingly.
PoC's Axiom #1: Nobody ever gets to the start line "completely prepared at IM distance."
PoC
Know what I told Santa I wanted for Christmas? Spring.
1275
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382 days
TriSooner posted 16 weeks ago.
jhudalla wrote:
That's what bricks are for. And long bikes probably don't need to exceed five hours or 100 miles, whichever comes first. Overtaining in one thing means undertaining in everything else (because you are either injured or too fried to do anything else).
Thats why I was thinking the uber bike mileage would really help me feel fine after 112 miles and ready for the run.
PrinceofClydes wrote:
Training starts out with that in mind, but for me, it always ends up with, "Meh, that'll do. Good enough."
Nobody ever gets to the start line "completely prepared at IM distance."
296
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122 days
jnrice posted 16 weeks ago.
PrinceofClydes wrote:
Over-distance?
If you are going to pursue this discussion, you had better sit down right now and come up with a meaningful goal - and I don't mean, "just to do as well as I can."
I don't mean, "To win it all" either.
Assess what you have done and can do right now, and extraploate that to a set of goals for each of the 5 splits (incl. T1 and T2) and nutrition goal.
Then look at what you would have to do in training to achieve each one of those goals.
Decide if you want to pay the price to achieve each of those goals.
Revise the plan accordingly.
PoC
... Amen
I am currently doing EXACTLY that. I sat down with a woman who is acting as my "get your stuff together" coach and planning my life so that successfully training for an IM is realistic. The IM web page also has what a "typical" Kona athlete does weekly to prepare for the event. I do have the luxury of planning 3 yrs in advance. I'm not going to hold myself to an IM until I have a full season of Oly's and 1/2 IM under my belt. I should say though that I am one of those people who hates performing anything less than as close to 100% as I feel is possible.
48
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113 days
mtbke15 posted 16 weeks ago.
I would have to agree that doing the super long distance would not be beneficial. When training for marathons no one really runs the full 26.2. They run maybe at most 24 but typically most people do 18-22 for their max runs but they do it multiple times over the training period once there is a solid base and has worked up to it. This helps have a strong long run opposed to just gutting it out.
"What counts in training is what you do once the pain sets in." John Short, South African Coach
872
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918 days
tsilcyc posted 16 weeks ago.
TriSooner wrote:
- Swim: You must be comfortable swimming for one hour in open-water, surrounded by people jockeying for position, asserting your 'virtual lane' around buouys, and have the mental capacity to fight this for an hour;
- Bike: You need to be able to cycle 100 miles without stopping (~ 6 hours?) and possess a postive mental script that you rely on to get you through the dark places;
- Run: You need to get in at least one 20 mile run at any pace within a month or so of the race.
What is your goal? To complete the distance? To finish in a certain time? If you have time goal, what is your time goal based on? Some general numbers to toss around... take your half ironman time and add an hour. Or for the run portion, take your marathon time and add 30 minutes. Obviously this assumes you're not walking.
Give us some existing times to work with.
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Landyachtz posted 16 weeks ago.
tsilcyc wrote:
What is your goal? To complete the distance? To finish in a certain time? If you have time goal, what is your time goal based on? Some general numbers to toss around... take your half ironman time, double it and add an hour. Or for the run portion, take your marathon time and add 30 minutes. Obviously this assumes you're not walking.
Give us some existing times to work with.
Fixed (I think)
582
Member
348 days
jhudalla posted 16 weeks ago.
I'm not really looking for a plan, just looking for some introspection on the distance from peeps that have done it, had some self evaluation, and did it again.
As for the times:
Marathon 3:55 - With only 3 runs over 15 miles. I like to bike the most.
10k - 43:xx
HIM 6:20 - Bonked on the ride (see above) and suffered on the run. I've learned my lesson.
OLY - 2:33
Weary is the path that does not challenge.
872
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918 days
tsilcyc posted 16 weeks ago.
mtbke15 wrote:
I would have to agree that doing the super long distance would not be beneficial. When training for marathons no one really runs the full 26.2. They run maybe at most 24 but typically most people do 18-22 for their max runs but they do it multiple times over the training period once there is a solid base and has worked up to it. This helps have a strong long run opposed to just gutting it out.
Don't run any more than three hours.
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tsilcyc posted 16 weeks ago.
Landyachtz wrote:
Fixed (I think)
Nice catch... thanks.
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mtbke15 posted 16 weeks ago.
Don't run any more than three hours.
Are you saying that for when training for an IM or in general when training for a marathon?
"What counts in training is what you do once the pain sets in." John Short, South African Coach
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jhudalla posted 16 weeks ago.
This thread was intended to be about the IM disty as a whole
Weary is the path that does not challenge.
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tsilcyc posted 16 weeks ago.
mtbke15 wrote:
Don't run any more than three hours.
Are you saying that for when training for an IM or in general when training for a marathon?
Both. The gains are minimal in comparison to the potential chance of injury.
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Now that I have offically recieved my IMwi volunteer spot - processed and paid - I would like to know some things. While volunteering I heard many a tale about how people went to the event 'feeling' prepared but ulimately dnf'd. Some learned from their failure and returned victoriously, others apparently needed more experience and had several dnfs before they made it.
I am wondering what you seasoned IMers have learned from your sufferings and experience. Surely I can read any training plan out there, and see this or that, but what I can't do is see what the opinion is on a 'must do' level of ability. As in, if you can't do this, you won't cut it.
I have ~50 weeks, I train at least 1 discipline everyday and go long on the weekends.
Weary is the path that does not challenge.